Were they awake?

[Greg C.]

i still dont know the exact truth behind the attack at san jacinto. were the mexicans having siesta as portrayed in "Texas" or were they ready for attack as portrayed in "the alamo"?

[Cole_blooded]

From what I have read through the years the Mexicans were probably just sleeping,be it early morning! If the attack had happened in the afternoon and the Mexicans were asleep,then i guess that would be a siesta! We do know that Santa Anna was having a sexesta at the time and the tent was pitched! ;D ;D

TED....aka....cole_blooded

[Greg C.]

yeah, that was in "Texas"

[neferetus]

admin said:

yeah, that was in "Texas"

Emily Morgan surfaced in GONE TO TEXAS, as well.

Actually, the terrain at San Jacinto aided the Texians in their sneak attack. The rise of earth shielded them from view until they were barely 100 yards from the Mexican breastwork. At that point, the unvigilant Mexicans did not have much time to rally, with the Twin Sisters blasting them, Lamar's and Seguin's cavaly riding them down and the devastating, almost point blank volley from the Texian line. Add to this Santa Anna's utmost contempt of the Texians as a viable fighting force, couple that with El Presidente's lame decision to park his army with their backs to the San Jacinto and you have a 'battle' with disaster written all over it.

P. S. Had the Mexicans been able to rally as swiftly as they did in THE ALAMO (2004), the Texians would most certainly have sustained more than a mere 9 killed and 34 wounded.

[Cole_blooded]

When is the renovation of the San Jacinto Battlefield going to be complete? Any idea who the Advisors are that are heading this project?

TED....aka....cole_blooded

[Bromhead24]

I think "Peggy Lake" no longer exists from what i have read.

[Cole_blooded]

A bit on searching around the San Jacinto Battle site!

TED COLE....aka....cole_blooded "The only person the goddamn smilies don`t work for since the change"
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
CONSERVATION COMMITTEE
 
Archeology at San Jacinto Battleground/Monument SHS
 
MAY 2004
 
 
I.       EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:  Over the last year TPWD has worked with several archeological contractors and volunteer groups to conduct archeological research into the physical remains of the battle of San Jacinto.  Until now there has been no concerted effort to document the exact location of the Mexican encampment, the Mexican breastworks, the exact line of attack by the Texas forces, and the location of pursuit after the most intense fighting.  Historical documents related to the battle led historians to believe that there was little to find archeologically of such a short lived battle.
 
         Contrary to this opinion physical evidence of the battle and its runaway aftermath have been located using metal detectors and archeological field techniques to locate and record individual objects related to the battle which ended the Texas Revolution, thereby guaranteeing independence from Mexico.  Through written letter agreements TPWD is securing permission to survey on lands adjacent to the park.  These agreements give TPWD ownership of any artifacts collected to preserve and interpret for posterity.  Port of Houston Authority property adjacent to Peggy Lake is covered under such an agreement, and staff is working with Centerpoint Energy and Occidental Chemical Company to secure similar rights for research in the power line corridor and plant property adjacent to Peggy Lake and the park.
 
         To date the teams of archeologists and volunteer metal detectorists have located numerous artifacts directly related to the battle including musket balls, gun parts, uniform insignia, Spanish and Mexican coins.  While only a small area has been surveyed along the shores of Peggy Lake, numerous artifacts were found indicating that the runaway portion of the battle is intact on lands adjacent to the Battleground.  This initial work proves that further investigations will likely yield information important to the onsite interpretation of the battleground.
 
         On the battleground itself recent work in the suspected area of the Mexican breastworks has uncovered numerous musketballs and several musket ramrods indicating Mexican soldiers likely dropped them in their haste to load and retreat at the same time.  The work continues on the Battleground narrowing-in on the areas of the most intense fighting to locate the Mexican encampment.  After the systematic metal detector survey is completed in this area selective archeological excavations will be conducted to identify features and non-metallic artifacts associated with the Mexican encampment.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[neferetus]

Any update on this, cole?

[neferetus]

One reason given for why the Mexican soldiers in THE ALAMO (2004) are shown fully clothed during the battle of San Jacinto scene is that the extras were all given very un-period suspenders to wear and if they shed their coats, the suspenders would be seen.

[alamoal]

They were largely resting, that's why the 'attack' was so successful. I understand that Santa Anna was so confident that he could rouse his troops early (ala the Alamo) and have another pre-dawn attack and catch the Texians unaware. However, this time it was reversed. Houston had determined that this is where they would confront the Mexican Army, a place of his choosing. Scouts were sent out to burn the bridges to prevent their own retreat. Santa Anna had forced marched his troops to catch up with the Texians. When they arrived on the scene in the a.m., they prepared for battle and waited, and waited .....
Houston knew that they would tire of this and settle in for siesta, since they were exhausted (again, ala the Alamo). When Houston was convinced that they (the Mexican Army), were out-of-it, he formed his men in a long line that stretched a mile, with the twin cannon in the middle, and moved them forward, quietly. The Mexican watch was obviously asleep (ala the Alamo). That's why they got so close before the army had any idea.

It is believed that the soldatos, being in camp, would have been in their white fatigues, unless they were on duty. Can't expect a movie with a budget to have the fatigue uniforms too.

[alamoal]

I want to add that the Mexican soldatos were not cowards in any way. These were seasoned troops that had been in combat for years. I think this misunderstanding is finally being shed. If you read the comments of US officers during the Mexican American War, about the soldatos you get a very different picture. They were tough, and they could force march under harsh conditions. The problem; the Mexican officer corps........badly led by self serving men.

[neferetus]

bromhead24 said:

I think "Peggy Lake" no longer exists from what i have read.

Oh yes it do, Mike!



Here's a photo of the lake, taken during a High Holy Days bus visit in 2006.

[Rick]

That's me on the left in the red baseball cap.

[neferetus]

rick said:

That's me on the left in the red baseball cap.

So, how was the visit, Rick? Did actually 'being there' give you a better perspective as to how the battle was fought?

You know, I've been in two movie versions of the battle of San Jacinto, but have yet to see the actual battlefield. Count yourself lucky.

[Greg C.]

Great shot nef...

[Rick]

Ned, you need to visit the real thing, bud! Nothing like it!

Our 2006 trip was organized by the ABA, and (I think) planned so that we arrived at San Jacinto at about the same time the battle took place.

We first gathered at the site of the Texan camp, a big hunk of which was destroyed when the Houston Ship Channel was widened. There, we eyeballed the monument, which was constructed at the site of the Mexican barricade, with Santa Anna's camp located behind it, and Peggy's Lake behind that.

Tour guide Steve Hardin lined us up in the same marching formation the Texans used, yelled, "Trail arms!" and off we went, walking toward the monument, retracing the Texan line of march.

I fell out of line to shoot photos, walking backward through the grass and and making sure I stayed out of the reflecting pool. Gradually, the column of tourists/Texans fell out of formation and we ambled in a spread-out group toward the site of the barricade.

It still has a slight incline, though not to the degree that was there in 1836, and grass was high, though likewise not as high as it was back then.

I remember thinking I was walking on hallowed ground, the same feeling I got when walking part of the ground at Pickett's Charge.

We bypassed the monument (John Hinnant and I took pictures of each other at the marker where Houston was wounded), then boodled through the site of the camp and thus to Peggy's Lake.

It was just about dusk, very humid, I was sweating like a dog, and the skeeters were ravenous. At the edge of the lake, Hardin told us we were standing right where many Texans stood, firing at retreating Mexican soldiers trying to swim away.

We went back to the actual monument at just about dark. Unfortunately, it was closed for remodeling. Someday I want to go back, ride up to the top, and see the whole layout.

Plans call for the pool to be removed and the terrain (complete with the rise in the ground that concealed the Texan advance for so long) restored to 1836 appearances.

I shot photos of all this. Have I not posted them?

[Bromhead24]

When i lived in Texas, i never got the chance to visit the site.

[neferetus]

Great recap of the visit, Rick, thanks. Almost made me feel like I was there. And someday, Iwill be.